02:00 < ggzz> Wizzup, why anti C or C++?
02:00 <@Wizzup> It works, and there's no need to rewrite 20k+ lines of code
02:00 <@Dgby714> ggzz: He;s not
02:00 < ggzz> oh
02:00 < ggzz> he said it's the devil
02:00 <@Dgby714> He just doesn't see the point in rewritting MML
02:00 <@Wizzup> well, I am very much anti C++
02:00 <@Wizzup> It's an insult to the human brain
02:00 <@Dgby714> Wizzup: ...
02:00 <@Dgby714> lol
02:00 <@Wizzup> but C is sensible
02:01 < ggzz> :S
02:01 <@Wizzup> but still, don't see the point of rewriting stuff
02:01 < ggzz> but they go hand in hand
02:01 <@Wizzup> who go hand in hand?
02:01 < ggzz> C and C++
02:01 <@Wizzup> no... they don't.
02:01 < ggzz> yes they do
02:01 <@Wizzup> They really don't
02:01 <@Dgby714> ggzz: no, no they do not
02:01 < ggzz> how do they not
02:01  * Wizzup hands ggzz logic
02:01 <@Wizzup> You said they go hand in hand
02:01 <@Wizzup> Back that up
02:01 <@Wizzup> Don't ask us to refute a statement you didn't back up
02:02 < ggzz> sure. If I write code in C++, I can load it in C
02:02 < ggzz> just fine
02:02 < ggzz> and vice versa
02:02 <@Wizzup> 'load'?
02:02 <@Wizzup> You mean call?
02:02 <@Wizzup> The same goes for pascal.
02:02 <@Wizzup> and C
02:02 <@Dgby714> ggzz: I can call C code in pascal...
02:02 <@Dgby714> and vice versa
02:02 <@Wizzup> and no, you cannot "use" c++ classes in C
02:02 < ggzz> Does pascal ahve variadic functions? I don't think so
02:02 <@Dgby714> ggzz: yes
02:02 < Olly`> JUST SHUT UP AND ADD FindColorsArray(cols, tols: TIntegerArray);  
02:02 <@Wizzup> yes. it does have those vars.
02:02 < ggzz> Wizzup are you serious? YOu can use C++ classes in C
02:03 < ggzz> pimpl idiom
02:03 <@Wizzup> no, C cannot handle the monster that is C++ classes
02:03 < ggzz> only thing you lose is detructors
02:03 <@Wizzup> sure you can pass pointers around.
02:03 <@Wizzup> Anyway, C is nice
02:03 < ggzz> Please tell me then, how come my libraries exported to dll's that have classes cannot be used in C
02:04 <@Wizzup> C++ is to C as cancer is to lung
02:04 < ggzz> as far as I'm aware, it all works in C
02:04 <@Wizzup> What are you on about
02:04 < ggzz> C++ is used in many games
02:04 < ggzz> not C
02:04 < ggzz> what's your point
02:04 <@Wizzup> I don't even understand what you are trying to say.
02:04 <@Wizzup> Sure, you can export C++ classes in a non-OOP way so that C can use it. That is what I do in libmml with pascal.
02:04 <@Wizzup> Nothing fancy there
02:05 <@Dgby714> ggzz: Not in Linux btw
02:05 <@Wizzup> And that games use C++ doesn't make it a good language...
02:05 < ggzz> You can pass Lambdas to C as well
02:05 < ggzz> pascal can't do that
02:05 <@Wizzup> stop, please
02:05 <@Wizzup> What is the point you are trying to make here?
02:05 < Olly`> fight
02:05 <@Wizzup> I just don't get it
02:05 < ggzz> you're trying to say its a bad langauge.. you just don't know it well
02:05 <@Dgby714> .k Olly` no
02:05 -!- Olly` was kicked from #Simba by Sexy [no]
02:05 < ggzz> simple
02:05 <@Wizzup> What do lambda's have to do with this?
02:05 <@Wizzup> ggzz: lol
02:06 <@Wizzup> you're very stuck up in this
02:06 <@Wizzup> that's fine, I don't think it makes sense to continue the convo atm
02:06 -!- Olly` [~Olly-PC@Rizon-643F3696.cable.virginm.net] has joined #Simba
02:06 < ggzz> I am because you can't say a language is bad
02:06 <@Dgby714> ggzz: so, fix my c++ issue =(
02:06 <@Wizzup> ``It's not bad, you don't know it!!!''
02:06 < ggzz> what makes a language bad?
02:06 < ggzz> its the user that is bad
02:06 <@Wizzup> http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/c++/
02:06 < ggzz> or developer
02:06 <@Wizzup> ggzz: brainfuck is great, it's the programmer that doesn't understand who is failing!
02:07 < ggzz> Wizzup if you're going to link me to a site with quotes about why C++ is bad, you should look at why C sucks balls as well
02:07 < ggzz> its bad usage doesn't make the language bad
02:07 <@Dgby714> ggzz: Try the test program in CMML
02:07 <@Dgby714> (in Linux)
02:07 < ggzz> which test?
02:07 <@Wizzup> I am by no means a C advocate.
02:07 <@Wizzup> But it is a lot more sane than the brainfuck that is C++.
02:08 <@Dgby714> ggzz: The original one
02:08 <@Wizzup> Plus, your argument that people don't know the language well enough is exactly one of the things wrong with C++.
02:08 < ggzz> it doesn't work dgby. Smart won't load
02:08 < ggzz> I know that
02:08 <@Wizzup> What if I make a language that is so hard to use that no one can use it? Does that mean it is a good one?
02:08 <@Dgby714> ggzz: I know =P Fix it =(
02:08 < ggzz> yes it is Wizzup. YOu cannot say "C++ is bad because its bad"
02:08 <@Wizzup> Totally irrelevant: lambda's are relatively new aren't they?
02:09 < ggzz> yeah
02:09 <@Wizzup> I usually code in C89.
02:09 <@Wizzup> sometimes gnu99
02:09 < ggzz> I will try dgby. I have to figure out why it doesn't load smart
02:09 <@Dgby714> ggzz: It runs the libraries initialization before initializing the standard library
02:09 <@Dgby714> I already know why it fails
02:09 <@Wizzup> And I didn't say "C++ is bad because it is bad". I just gave you some argument: C++ is too complex and has way too many 
                ways to achieve the same thing.
02:09 < ggzz> Wizzup.. don't live in the past.. C89. Seriously?
02:09 <@Wizzup> What's wrong with portability?
02:10 < ggzz> ^THis argument is the same crap Java devs pull
02:10 <@Dgby714> ggzz: Also, CMLL.layout shouldn't be commited
02:10 <@Wizzup> 02:10 < ggzz> ^THis argument is the same crap Java devs pull
02:10 <@Wizzup> > this argument
02:10 <@Wizzup> What is 'this'
02:10 < ggzz> There is nothing non-portable about C99
02:10 < Olly`> Dgby714, codeinsight is part of mml... fix it before porting it to c++ :D:D:DDD:DD:D:D:D::D:
02:10 <@Wizzup> Except for some old systems and compilers
02:10 <@Dgby714> Olly`: No, it's not, and we are not porting to C++
02:10 < ggzz> C++ is too complex and has way too many ways to achieve the same thing.  Complex for who?
02:11 < Olly`> Dgby714, well Kasi is.. he's gonna have a rough time with it then :(
02:11 <@Wizzup> Everyone who thinks they understand C++ really don't
02:11 <@Wizzup> That probably includes you.
02:11 <@Wizzup> I'm off to bed now
02:11 < ggzz> doesn't answer the question
02:11 <@Wizzup> Going to write more in Go lang \o/
02:11 <@Dgby714> VB.NET > *
02:11 <@Dgby714> lol
02:11 <@Wizzup> <3 simple languages
02:11 < ggzz> Go lang is useless
02:11 <@Wizzup> - ggzz, 2014
02:11 < ggzz> right
02:11 < ggzz> and pascal is what?
02:12 <@Dgby714> ggzz: VB.NET is the best =P
02:12 < ggzz> we're still writing in it
02:12 <@Dgby714> lol
02:12 <@Wizzup> And arcane language that is more clear than C++
02:12 <@Wizzup> s/And/An/
02:12 < ggzz> It might be MORE clear for YOU wizzup
02:12 < ggzz> doesn't make C++ bad because it isn't clear for YOU
02:12 <@Wizzup> I'm sure you know all the programmers in the world
02:12 < Olly`> pascal is a clearest language in the world without a doubt
02:12 < ggzz> programmers?
02:12  * Wizzup has been teaching C and other languages to students for years
02:12 <@Wizzup> but I'm sure you have much more teaching experience
02:13  * ggzz has been teaching Assembly, C and C++ for years
02:13 < ggzz> what's your point
02:13 <@Wizzup> My point is that C++ is overly complex and sucks donkey balls.
02:13 <@Wizzup> And you tell me that I don't understand how complex it really is
02:13 < ggzz> and my point is that it is your opinion because you don't understand it
02:13 <@Wizzup> which is kinda funny
02:13 <@Wizzup> And proves my point
02:13 <@Wizzup> I'm happy it's dying anyway
02:13 <@Wizzup> long live C,rust,go
02:13 <@Wizzup> and python ;-)
02:13 < ggzz> but you are proving my point.. It isn't a bad language because YOU don't know it
02:14 < ggzz> it is bad because you suck at using it
02:14 <@Wizzup> What makes you think I don't know C++?
02:14 <@Wizzup> And why do you say I suck using it?
02:14 <@Wizzup> wtf
02:14 <@Wizzup> Assumptions
02:14 < ggzz> because you complain all day long "omg.. c++ so hard.. "
02:14 <@Wizzup> Yes, it's hard. Doesn't mean I cannot handle it
02:14 < ggzz> if you knew it well, it won't be hard
02:14 <@Wizzup> You keep making it personal
02:14 < ggzz> No. You're sounding like Linux
02:14 <@Wizzup> Even if I created C++, it can still be hard.
02:14 < ggzz> Torvald
02:15 < ggzz> Linus*
02:15 <@Wizzup> Even if I created C++, it can still be hard.
02:16 <@Wizzup> That has nothing to do with my personal usage/skill of the language, and everything with the language being overly 
                complex and ill designed
02:16 <@Wizzup> and Linus is very right; using C++ in a kernel is fucking stupid, and no one does it
02:16 <@Dgby714> ggzz: Internet got disconected, but on a serious note, FP's OO is much easier to understand than C++
02:16 < ggzz> it is complexed due to your skill
02:16 <@Wizzup> 02:15 <@Wizzup> Even if I created C++, it can still be hard.
02:16 <@Wizzup> 02:16 <@Wizzup> That has nothing to do with my personal usage/skill of the language, and 
02:16 <@Wizzup>                 everything with the language being overly complex and ill designed
02:17 <@Wizzup> Can you please stop repeating the flawed assumption and personal attacks?
02:17 < ggzz> yes it is dgby, you are right there. But just because pascal is easier, does that make C++ bad?
02:17 <@Wizzup> It makes you look really dumb and an arrogant asshole.
02:17 < ggzz> Like I said Wizzup, you're sounding like Linux Torvald
02:17 <@Dgby714> ggzz: I didn't say that =P
02:17 < ggzz> C, this, Pascal taht, C++ evil
02:17 < Olly`> yea fuck linux!
02:17 < ggzz> Linus*
02:17  * Wizzup gives up on ggzz - He doesn't listen to what I say and keep repeating personal attacks
02:17 <@Wizzup> We are getting no where this way
02:17 <@Wizzup> good night.
02:17 < ggzz> night
02:18 <@Dgby714> 02:12:10 <@Wizzup> And arcane language that is more clear than C++
02:18 <@Dgby714> 02:12:13 <@Wizzup> s/And/An/
02:18 <@Dgby714> 02:12:23 <ggzz> It might be MORE clear for YOU wizzup
02:18 <@Wizzup> You should do something about that, by the way. Take a more objective look at how offensive you are towards others that 
                disagree with oyu.
02:18 <@Dgby714> Just saying generally Pascal is clearer than C++
02:18 <@Wizzup> Flaming without using reason is not the way to discuss anything.
02:18 < ggzz> I'm offensive how?
02:18 < ggzz> I simply state that the complexity of the language depends on your skill
02:18 < ggzz> you take offense when anyone calls you out
02:19 <@Wizzup> No, you implied MORE THAN ONCE that *my* skill specifically was lacking.
02:19 < ggzz> You say a language is bad because another is easier
02:19 <@Wizzup> And the whole point is that, regardless of skill, it is hard a language.
02:19 <@Wizzup> I can also master walking on one leg all the time.
02:19 <@Wizzup> Even if I can do it easily, doesn't make it useful.
02:19 <@Wizzup> And it's still hard.
02:19 < ggzz> Your skill IS lacking if you consider it so horrendous and "hard"
02:19 <@Wizzup> Wtf?
02:19 <@Wizzup> I am saying it is a hard language - that has nothing to do with skill.
02:20 < ggzz> but it does.. Skill is related to how easy a language comes to you
02:20 <@Wizzup> Another personal attack: Saying I sound like Linus, who you seem to despise
02:20 < ggzz> waw..
02:20 <@Wizzup> ggzz: No! Something can be classified as hard, regardless of skill.
02:20 <@Wizzup> Like, what?
02:20 < ggzz> You think I depise linus? No.. I despise his silly argument
02:20  * Wizzup hands ggzz some objectivity
02:20 < ggzz> DO your remember his argument?
02:20 <@Wizzup> I don't give a flying fuck about Linus.
02:21 <@Wizzup> We are talking about something else.
02:21 < ggzz> Lol but I said you sound like him and you're taking offense
02:21 <@Wizzup> Which is: You state that ANYTHING is not-hard once you master it. Which is a very egocentric view.
02:21 < ggzz> no.. It's not offensive to say that your argument is exactly the same thing he's been spewing
02:21 <@Wizzup> Because, it is still hard for everyone who didn't master it.
02:21 <@Wizzup> Well, then he is very right and a clever man.
02:21 <@Wizzup> C++ is an ugly monster not fit for kernel development.
02:22 < Olly`> Dgby714, break this shit up before wizzup shuts down villavu.com
02:22 <@Wizzup> but let's get one thing clear.
02:22 <@Wizzup> You are stating that "hard" is always subjective.
02:22 <@Dgby714> ggzz: You were offensive if your comparing his arument to another that you said was "silly"
02:22 <@Wizzup> I am saying there is such a thing as objectively hard.
02:22 < ggzz> Not always WIzzup but most of the time it is subjective
02:22 <@Wizzup> That's bullshit.
02:22 <@Wizzup> For you it is subjective.
02:22 < ggzz> If you work on guitar for years, playing it won't be hard
02:22 <@Wizzup> I can objectively say Python is more simple than C++.
02:22 < ggzz> if you just start, it's hard as hell
02:22 < ggzz> subjective
02:22 <@Wizzup> Which means it's shit for many people if there are better alternatives.
02:23 <@Wizzup> Regardless of the actual shit design of the language
02:23 <@Wizzup> It's objectively harder than most languages out there.
02:23 <@Wizzup> And overly complex for all tasks
02:23 <@Dgby714> ggzz: Depends on the guitar btw
02:23 <@Dgby714> as well as song
02:24 <@Wizzup> Dgby714: his comparison makes no sense, as it involves only one thing and it has little relation to this argument
02:24 < ggzz> Wizzup. Because the language is hard for "many" or "whoever" does NOT mean it is a BAD language
02:24 < ggzz> that is the entire point of the argument
02:24 <@Wizzup> C++ is objectively complex and hard. Regardless of ggzz's subjective opinion of it
02:24 <@Wizzup> The actual 'bad' part of C++ is the bloat of features that don't mix well, the overly complex features that it has, etc.
02:24 < ggzz> Oh please.. bloat?
02:25 <@Wizzup> yes. bloat.
02:25 < ggzz> you want to see bloat.. write a quicksort in C
02:25 < ggzz> no templates.. crap
02:25 < ggzz> no classes
02:25 < ggzz> pfft
02:25 <@Wizzup> Indeed.
02:25 <@Wizzup> I love that.
02:25 < ggzz> Thats real bloat
02:25 < ggzz> writing the same crap millions of time
02:25 < ggzz> times
02:25 <@Wizzup> There are plenty libraries with datastructures.
02:25 <@Wizzup> but you're taking a very narrow example.
02:25 <@Wizzup> Take a look at real world C++ applications.
02:25 < ggzz> oh yeah and they are so much better.. they aren't bloat
02:25 < ggzz> yeah right
02:25 <@Wizzup> Let's look at boost :) 
02:25 <@Wizzup> Or rather, let's not
02:25 <@Wizzup> I want to keep my eyes
02:25 < ggzz> Like I said.. write a Quicksort in C
02:26 < ggzz> and write on in C++
02:26 <@Wizzup> I have done it many times
02:26 < ggzz> compare the speed and code size
02:26 <@Wizzup> then what?
02:26 < ggzz> you'll notice C++ destroy C there
02:26 <@Wizzup> I'll just call qsort?
02:26 <@Dgby714> ggzz: The C++ may be less source, but both are bloaty
02:26 <@Wizzup> I'm sure it won't. It makes no sense.
02:26 < ggzz> I'll call std;:sort
02:26 <@Wizzup> yes, so?
02:26 <@Wizzup> wtf
02:26 <@Dgby714> o
02:26 <@Wizzup> you're just arguing and biting but there's no direction to this argument at all
02:26  * Wizzup gives up
02:27 < ggzz> lol you're the one that siad C is less bloat
02:27 < ggzz> but can't back it up
02:27 <@Wizzup> mind=blown
02:27 <@Dgby714> heh
02:27 <@Wizzup> I'll have fun at work telling people that someone believes C++ is less bloat than C
02:27 <@Dgby714> ggzz: It is. There is no reason to back that up, just think about it
02:27 < ggzz> tell me how it is less bloat
02:28 < Olly`> Lape is far more bloatly than DWScript tho.
02:28 <@Wizzup> > reverting the argument
02:28 <@Wizzup> ggzz: C is super simple. Your argument is that some people do not re-use C code.
02:28 <@Wizzup> C++ generates more complex code, links in more crap, uses more ram by design
02:28 <@Wizzup> produces larger binaries
02:28 < Olly`> let's end it here. what is better BenLand100 c++ or c!
02:28 < ggzz> that is entirely NOT true
02:28 <@Wizzup> right.
02:28 < ggzz> write a C++ template
02:28 <@Wizzup> > template
02:28 <@Wizzup> > not complex
02:28 < ggzz> it is compile time and optimises better than any C code of the same style
02:29 < ggzz> template isn't complexed.. template<typename T> void func(T someparam);
02:29 <@Wizzup> you're lost in your own bubble
02:29 < ggzz> the value of someparam can be anyhting
02:29 < ggzz> you can't do taht in C
02:29 <@Dgby714> ggzz: Is that possible?, It might optimise the same, but I doubt it'd optimise better than the equiv C code...
02:30 <@Wizzup> I mean, you just proved that it's more bloated because it generates more code.
02:30 <@Wizzup> Think about it.
02:30 < ggzz> dgby, run qsort in C
02:30 < ggzz> run std;:sort in C++
02:30 <@Wizzup> either you compare/swap pointers with a cmp function, or you generate lots of code
02:30 < ggzz> benchmark it
02:30  * Wizzup knows that the windows qsort sucks
02:30 < ggzz> ^bloat
02:30 <@Wizzup> what is bloat?
02:30 <@Wizzup> argh
02:30 < ggzz> having to swap every single byte
02:30 < ggzz> for a qsort
02:30 <@Wizzup> what?
02:30 <@Wizzup> lolwtf?
02:30 < ggzz> pure bloat
02:31 <@Wizzup> you sound like a nut.
02:31 < ggzz> it isn't optimised
02:31 < ggzz> gah forget it.. you don't even know how C's qsort works
02:31 < ggzz> but you say its fast.. not bloated
02:31  * Wizzup hands ggzz reading glasses and pills to calm him
02:31 <@Wizzup> I'm going to convince myself I really don't care about your opinion and how you're wrong and instead go to sleep
02:31 <@Wizzup> Have a good day
02:32 < ggzz> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/22623207/sort-and-swap-using-byte-pointers-to-array-types
02:32 < ggzz> qsort in C
02:32 < ggzz> that's teh implementation
02:32 < ggzz> gotta love all those comparator functions, those beautiful swapping of every single byte
02:33 <@Wizzup> Dgby714: today you learned: qsort in libc uses C++ and templates
02:33 <@Wizzup> according to ggzz
02:33 < ggzz> ahh you're being silly.. where did I say qsort uses templates?
02:33 <@Dgby714> ggzz: Anyways, by design a template cannot use less bloat than C's "set" of functions
02:33 < ggzz> I said: compare qsort to std::sort
02:34 < ggzz> yes it does dgby
02:34 <@Wizzup> 02:32 < ggzz> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/22623207/sort-and-swap-using-byte-pointers-to-array-types
02:34 <@Wizzup> 02:32 < ggzz> qsort in C
02:34 <@Wizzup> > look at code
02:34 <@Wizzup> > note it's C++
02:34 < ggzz> a template is only instantiated ONCE
02:34 <@Wizzup> > note how ggzz said that is qsort in C
02:34 < ggzz> wizzup remove the std:: and cout.. bam C
02:34 < ggzz> read the comments
02:34  * Wizzup points ggzz and glibc
02:34 <@Wizzup> to
02:35  * Wizzup points himself to bed and laughs
02:35 <@Dgby714> ggzz: no, You have to think about it, it *cannot* result in a smaller binary
02:35 < ggzz> go ahead.. you laugh when you're wrong
02:35 <@Wizzup> you're getting really stuck in arguments and focus on weird details
02:35 <@Wizzup> ggzz: no, YOU think that I am wrong
02:35 < ggzz> dgby how does it NOT result in a smaller binary?
02:35 <@Wizzup> That is very different from me being wrong
02:35 <@Wizzup> Dgby714: Teach him ls -lsh
02:35 <@Dgby714> ggzz: Look into how a template works =P
02:35 < ggzz> but I know how a template works
02:35 <@Dgby714> anyways, gotta go to the store, I'll be back in like 20-30 minutes
02:36 <@Wizzup> Dgby714: he'll just say you don't know how it works
02:36 <@Wizzup> and say he's right
02:36 <@Wizzup> It's pointless
02:36 <@Wizzup> <bubble>
02:36 < ggzz> right
02:36 < ggzz> I already gave you a link on the bloat of a quicksort in C
02:36 < ggzz> write the same thing with a template in C++ and you'll see
02:36 <@Wizzup> please. stop. You don't know how to discuss and/or hold an argument
02:37 <@Wizzup> You're jumping around with baseless and meaningless arguments/points that do not relate to the actual discussion
02:37 < ggzz> sure.. no one knows anything to almighty god wizzup
02:37 <@Wizzup> And based on that, you try to be 'right'.
02:37 < ggzz> who knows all about C and C++ and all programming
02:37 <@Wizzup> It's stupid and a waste of all our time.
02:37 < ggzz> our time?
02:37 < ggzz> it's just you and me
02:37 <@Wizzup> Everyone's time.
02:37 < ggzz> right
02:37 < ggzz> I noticed something. You will never admit when you're wrong
02:37 < ggzz> no matter what
02:38  * Wizzup shows ggzz a mirror
02:38 < ggzz> fine by me
02:38 < ggzz> I know when I'm wrong though
02:38 <@Wizzup> So do I, and I often admit I am wrong, this is just another stupid personal attack.
02:38 <@Wizzup> Go vent your frustration somewhere else.
02:38 < ggzz> uhuh
02:38 -!- slushpuppy [~slush@A34D5BA5.A5640A00.50B3C10E.IP] has joined #Simba
02:40 < ggzz> Here you go: http://unthought.net/c++/c_vs_c++.html
02:40 < ggzz> that will take your ego down more
02:42 < slushpuppy> man is that guy trying to compare readability between c++ and c?
02:43 <@Wizzup> slushpuppy: careful, ggzz has toes of a giant and will smash you with illogical statements and personal attacks if you 
                disagree with him
02:43 < ggzz> Not readability but speed, bloat and other things
02:43 <@Wizzup> I already gave up talking to him
02:43 < ggzz> Wizzup says "C++ is bad and evil"
02:43 < ggzz> and C is far better according to him
02:43 < ggzz> he's in denial
02:43 < Olly`> the standoff is real
02:44 < Olly`> who will win? stay tuned in
02:44 <@Wizzup> Olly`: There are no winners when people are randomly attacking people around them in frenzy
02:45 <@Wizzup> And yes, frenzy implies they're not even thinking about what others are doing
02:45 <@Wizzup> or saying
02:45  * Wizzup afk
02:45 < ggzz> If you call "Your argument is like Linus'" an attack then you have some serious emotional issues
02:45 < slushpuppy> personally, the reason why i didn'
02:45 < ggzz> you're too sensitive
02:45 < slushpuppy> t take up C++ was the first tutorial on the std template pretty much threw me off balance
02:46 <@Wizzup> I am fine emotionally, thanks, very stable too, I just had a lot of discussions with people and I've identified you as 
                overly agressive and as someone who stops thinking when in an argument
02:46 < ggzz> right.. I stop thinking when I tell you your skill in C++ is bad
02:46 < ggzz> which is why you find it hard
02:46 <@Wizzup> I'm not sensitive, I just see no point in talking to you.
02:46 < ggzz> very sensitive
02:46 < ggzz> hates when anyone tells you you're bad
02:47 <@Wizzup> Again, you are making the same mistake: You make it personal (Mistake one), you assume that I cannot program C++ (2), 
                and you make "hard" subjective again (mistake three)
02:47 <@Wizzup> All are bad and not conductive to the argument
02:47 < ggzz> it isn't personal. I simply said "Your argument is exactly like Linus' "
02:47 <@Wizzup> You should really meet some people and learn how to hold a proper discussion
02:47 < ggzz> you find it hard because you lack in skill
02:47 < ggzz> simple
02:47 <@Wizzup> > you tell me I cannot program C++
02:47 < ggzz> you don't like that then fine
02:47 <@Wizzup> how is that not personal?
02:47 <@Wizzup> please tell me
02:47 <@Wizzup> wow
02:47 < ggzz> I don't find it personal.
02:47 <@Wizzup> you make the same mistakes that I just name
02:48 <@Wizzup> Dude - you talk about me as a person
02:48 <@Wizzup> That is personal?
02:48 <@Wizzup> Like, the fucking definition of personal.
02:48 < ggzz> well then I guess it is personal. However, mentioning your skill hurts you seriously?
02:48 <@Wizzup> Let me be clear: I am not upset and I really don't care about your delusional views. I am just saying that you are 
                overly agressive and randomly attacking me.
02:48 < ggzz> if someone cannot tell you that you lack in skill in an argument then you again have emotional issues
02:48 <@Wizzup> This is me helping you by telling you you're being a total ass and that you need to learn to have a proper argument
02:49 <@Wizzup> And now you tell me I have emotional issues.
02:49 <@Wizzup> lmao
02:49 <@Wizzup> This is really pathetic.
02:49 <@Wizzup> Olly`: Can you start shouting how Simba bugs need fixing intead?
02:49 <@Wizzup> That's better for all of us, I think
02:49 < ggzz> you're not helping me at all..
02:49 <@Wizzup> Yes, you're not open to any criticism or suggestions on the way you act.
02:50 < ggzz> I listened to every single argument you said
02:50 < ggzz> and I responded
02:50 <@Wizzup> Which is evident by the fact that you don't even read what I say, and repeat the same things you said 45minutes ago
02:50 < ggzz> YOU aren't open to anything at all.. you're right and that's that
02:50 < ggzz> you're in denial. You say C++ is bad so it must be bad
02:50 < ggzz> you say it is bloated so it must be bloated
02:50 <@Wizzup> no. You're reflecting. I am very open to this, but the way you present your case (or try to) doesn't really make sense 
                for the discussion
02:50 < ggzz> but you cannot back any of that up.. The exact argument linus had and went down the gutter
02:51 <@Wizzup> You're making so many assumptions it;s ridiculous
02:51 < ggzz> right.. again, all you do is point out "the way I say things:
02:51 < ggzz> no facts, nothing
02:51 <@Wizzup> What assumptions did I make about you? All the things you're saying are baseless and based purely on your imagination
02:51 <@Wizzup> You keep typing and typing, repeating the same things, raging on, and it's all so pointless.
02:51 < ggzz> baseless how so? I gave you enough links for you to click on
02:51 < ggzz> and enough backing behind every argument I put forward
02:51 <@Wizzup> dude.
02:52 <@Wizzup> stop talking for a bit.
02:52 < ggzz> you however: "No. look ag libc"
02:52 < ggzz> at*
02:52 <@Wizzup> You said: I have emotional issues. You said: I cannot program C++. You say: I never admit that I am wrong. You said: I 
                am not open to discussion. You said: I am in denial
02:52 <@Wizzup> Now take a step back
02:52 <@Wizzup> And see how fucking stupid that is to say
02:52 < ggzz> no it isn't
02:52 <@Wizzup> Given that you hardly know me, let alone know that.
02:52 < ggzz> it is stupid because you don't like what I have to say
02:53 <@Wizzup> Well, then I gracefully decline to talk to you any further.
02:53 < ggzz> you say "C++ is hard" I say you lack the skill
02:53 < ggzz> what in the world is wrong with that
02:53 <@Wizzup> (And that doesn't make you right)
02:53 <@Wizzup> I've already told you that "hard" is objective, not subjective. It doesn't make sense to talk about something 
                subjectively if it is to apply to something in general.
02:53 <@Wizzup> That you don't see that is not my mistake.
02:53 < ggzz> and I've told you it can be subjective
02:53 <@Wizzup> And I have stated that over five times now.
02:54 < ggzz> what makes you think it is general?
02:54 < ggzz> YOU find it hard. YOU find it bad. YOU find problems with it
02:54 < ggzz> I don't
02:54 <@Wizzup> We're talking about a general concept, a language, in context (other languages, programming in general)
02:54 < ggzz> that in itself is subjective
02:54 <@Wizzup> Please stop repeating the same things and let me answer the questions you ask
02:54 < ggzz> and now we're back where we started.. Again a language CANNOT be bad because another language is easier
02:54 < ggzz> don't you get that
02:54 <@Wizzup> No, me stating that is has problems can be objective.
02:55 < ggzz> subjective
02:55 <@Wizzup> You stating that "if you know it, it is not hard" is subjective.
02:55 < ggzz> it is YOUR opinion
02:55 < ggzz> you don't seem to understand that at all.
02:55 <@Wizzup> Technical truths are not necessarily opinions. "I know the language so it is easy" is purely an opinion.
02:55 <@Wizzup> THAT is the difference between what I say, and what you say
02:56 <@Wizzup> Once you are ready to face that, we can have a sensible talk about technical sides. Without delving into some silly 
                branch that is not relevant before looking at the bigger picture.
02:56 <@Wizzup> And I'm not ready to do that now; since you're being very agressive and zealous.
02:56 < ggzz> lol
02:56 <@Wizzup> And it's 3AM here
02:56 <@Wizzup> You're free to disagree or laugh.
02:57 < ggzz> I did lol though. I cannot understand your "technical truths" because that is opinion
02:57 < ggzz> you stating that the language is hard doesn't make it hard
02:57 < ggzz> just because you think that
02:57 <@Wizzup> 1 + 1 == 2 in C, C++, Pascal. Objective? Yes.
02:57 < ggzz> correct
02:58 <@Wizzup> Well then.
02:58 < ggzz> then?
02:58 <@Wizzup> You don't even know what "Technical truths" I am talking about. So you cannot possibly know the over objective or 
                subjective.
02:58 <@Wizzup> You just keep on raging on, bringing up some things you think are relevant
02:58 <@Wizzup> You never even let me present my case
02:59 <@Wizzup> That's why I am not willing to continue the argument with you here and now
02:59 < ggzz> you are free to do so any time you like. YOu had time to do taht and all you did was bring opinions
02:59 <@Wizzup> I've spent an entire hour here, and it's a waste of time.
02:59 < ggzz> that's fine by me. Spend your time sleeping. YOu haven't brought anything to the table anyway other than opinions on why 
              it is bad and bloated.
02:59 <@Wizzup> You're fucking obnoxious as a person. And you think you're good at discussions. Let me tell you, you fucking suck at 
                it. And that is a personal attack, and I'm leaving it at that.
03:00 < ggzz> I can say the same to you
03:00 < ggzz> you're egotistical
03:00 <@Wizzup> (Another baseless assumption, based on ... nothing)
03:00 < Olly`> SHIT SON
03:00 < ggzz> lol based on nothing?
03:00 < ggzz> and you know I'm obnoxious because of this argument that YOU don't like
03:00 < ggzz> based on nothing as well
03:01  * Wizzup facepalms
03:01 < ggzz> you should do that harder
03:01 <@Wizzup> I'm going to ban you for our sanity, feel free to return some other day
03:01 -!- mode/#Simba [+b *!*@dont.care.at.all] by Wizzup
03:01 -!- ggzz was kicked from #Simba by Wizzup [ggzz]
03:01 < Olly`> lol